Watch: Student says she feels 'violated' after suspected spiking injection Drink spiking is illegal and carries a sentence of up to ten years in prison. Halo offers help in fight against drink spiking. More than half of spiking incidents this year involved people being injected with a needle, it has been revealed. UK It cites a recent poll found that one in nine women and one in 17 men in the UK say they have been the victim of drink spiking, and one in three women and one in five men knew someone who had been a victim of drink spiking. Hospitality trade bodies rally to combat drink spiking Ipswich supermarkets to face charges to stop dumped ... People are more aware of spiking than ever before so you’re more likely to be found out. What do we know so far about reports of ‘spiking’ with ... Minister Mims Davies reveals she was once a victim of ... Saving the scene: reflections on the fight for nightlife ... Supermarkets could be slapped with bills of more than £300 as part of a bid to curb the number of dumped shopping trolleys in Ipswich. Sign this petition. A government minister has told the BBC how her drink was spiked on a night out in 2019 and has called for tougher action to prevent further incidents. Individuals who are going out intending to behave in this way will be found and will be stopped. The couple had been drinking, and were shouting to look for their dog who had escaped. A NORTH Wales MS is urging the Welsh Government to take urgent action to tackle spiking incidents. Spiking is against the law. What is the offence of spiking someone’s drink here in the UK? Add Poland to … “Drink spiking has always been a big issue… and the suspected new method is just even more, just, violating. Halo offers help in fight against drink spiking. 1. The Home Affairs Committee cited statistics published in a YouGov poll in November, which suggested one in nine women and one in 17 men in the UK say they have been the victim of drink spiking. Drink spiking in the UK is on the rise. An Instagram page called Girls Night In Lancaster has launched a petition in the wake of concerns nationally in recent weeks. Credit: Kevin Dietsch/Getty Images. 114. There have been around 140 confirmed reports across September and October of drink spiking, and 24 reports of some form of injection. This means that slipping alcohol or drugs into someone’s drink is against the law, even if the drink is not consumed or the person is not harmed. Twitter. Email. Facebook. December 15 2021 02:10 PM. Remember: Spiking is against the law. A Hull man punched a shouting couple in the face after they woke up his son. Reports have doubled in the last three years, according to a recent investigation, and The National Police Chiefs Council has said there were almost 200 confirmed reports of drink spiking in September and October alone this year. Criminal convictions change lives. LONDON (AP) — Young women across the U.K. are boycotting nightclubs and pubs Wednesday as university towns and cities join in a national “girls night in” protest after increasing reports of drink spiking and students being drugged by needle injections. By Kevin Mullan. Almost 200 drink spiking incidents have been reported to police forces across the UK over the past two months. With the recent rise in drink spiking, both nationally and in the local Manchester area, the current published advice provides an insight into the culture surrounding it. Over 500 people across the UK were assaulted with a needle or had their drinks spiked between September and November, figures reveal. Petitions need to call on the Government or Parliament to take a specific action. The reports, alongside a significant number of drink spiking cases, have led to a nationwide conversation about the crime and inspired a boycott of nightclubs and bars dubbed ‘Girls Night In’. More than 140 drink and injection spiking incidents have been reported to police forces across the UK over the past two months. 15,809 signatures. 114. Students across a number of cities in the UK will take part in the “Girls Night In” initiative, designed to raise awareness about drink spiking and demand better protections. It hasn't gone down well, but some of the MPs have since claimed the bill would have meant sewage flooding people's homes instead, and that other measures are needed and are being introduced Four leading trade bodies have joined forces to help try and ensure customer safety amid growing concerns about drink spiking at hospitality venues across the UK. A petition has been launched to review the UK’s drink spiking laws after a recent rise in attacks. If a robbery or sexual assault has taken place, the sentence will be even higher. “Hundreds of UK drink spiking reports in the past two months”, Guardian [online], 23 October 2021; The petition. Drink spiking. Drink spiking occurs when a drug or alcohol is added to your drink without you knowing about it. This may affect your behaviour. Report it to the police as we will need to take blood and urine samples as soon as possible to collect the evidence. While alcohol is the most comment substance added, illegal or legal drugs are often used, it has been reported. A senior Laois Garda has said that drink spiking or ‘date rape’ attempts are not happening in the county, and says the trend is not as widespread as is claimed on social media. Pro-Vice-Chancellor, Professor David Jones, said: “While we do not currently have a problem with drink spiking at Queen’s, we want to act to make sure it stays that way. People are more aware of spiking than ever before so perpetrators are more likely to be found out. Drink spiking occurs when a drug or alcohol is added to your drink without you knowing about it. This may affect your behaviour. Report it to the police as we will need to take blood and urine samples as soon as possible to collect the evidence. Drink spiking is illegal, whether or not an attack or assault has been carried out. It’s a serious crime with serious consequences. Side-effects of being spiked include memory loss, blackouts, or an inability to walk. At GDS, we realised we had little to offer in terms of the evidence on this issue. The announcement of Nottinghamshire Police that ‘on the spot’ urine tests and metal detector wands are to be utilised in an effort to address ‘spiking’ incidents in Nottinghamshire is welcome. Drink spiking is a historical problem. Reports of drink spiking have increased recently, including substances being added to people’s drinks without their knowledge. "Drink spiking has always been a big issue… and the suspected new method is just even more, just, violating. “The reports of the spiking of drinks with substances, and of other attacks on individuals in night-time venues, are very concerning. Nearly 200 drink spiking incidents have been reported to police forces across the UK over the past two months, figures reveal. The same would be true of needle spiking which would also be a physical assault. Officers want to ensure that people working in bars, pubs and clubs know how to correctly support a victim of drink spiking and the way to report it. They also want to be clear that they will not tolerate drink spiking. A criminal conviction will change your life. Spiking with needles in nightclubs should be treated with the same urgency as terrorism, a parliamentary debate has heard. Hundreds of drink and injection spiking incidents have been reported to police forces across the UK over the past two months, according … one of a growing number of reports of suspected spiking involving needles in the Advice to victims of drink-spiking: If you or your friends start to feel strange or unwell then you should get help and seek medical advice straight away. Answered on. The latest available information from the Scottish Government Criminal Proceedings database shows that there were 4 offences prosecuted in Scottish courts for 'administering a substance for sexual purposes' for the period 2014-15 to 2018-19. Drink spiking: 'Stop blaming the victims'. 22 October 2021. The Met told the Standard it has had at least “11 reports of needle … Young women in the UK are boycotting night clubs and pubs this week after an alarming increase in reports of drink spiking incidents. It’s not clear what the petition is asking the UK Government or Parliament to do. Needle spiking: Young women fear new safety crisis. “Spiking is a particularly pernicious act," says Tim Loughton MP, acting Chair of the Home Affairs Committee. On Wednesday, Home Office minister Rachel Maclean also told the House of Commons drink-spiking was “a horrific and frightening offence” and the … You put a drop of your drink on to the wristband, and if it's been spiked with ketamine or GHB - two common drink spiking drugs - it will change colour. Speaking for the Liberal Democrats in the debate, Beatrice Wishart raised the issue of spiking by injection. The National Police Chiefs’ Council (NPCC) revealed there have been around 140 confirmed reports across September and October of drink spiking, and 24 reports of some form of injection. Prioritise funding for a new hospital for King's Lynn & West Norfolk. This guide can help you recognise the symptoms of drink spiking so that you can act quickly to help yourself or another possible victim of this crime. “The use … Drink spiking numbers in the UK have significantly risen. At least 25 incidents of people being spiked with a needle have been reported to An Garda Síochána so far this year, The Irish Examiner reports. The issue of drink spiking is not new. Crimes are going unreported, and people feel unsafe. GBL and 1,4-B, which are commonly used to spike drinks, have been controlled as Class C drugs under the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971. There are many different reasons a drink may be spiked, from a ‘prank’ to an intended robbery or sexual assault. POLICE and prosecutors should focus more on flashers, stalkers and drink spikers in the drive to cut violence against women, a top law chief said yesterday. If an assault, rape or robbery has also taken place, the sentence will be higher. Ta :) It’s illegal to spike a drink, and it can carry a prison sentence of up to 10 years. The Greater Manchester Police (GMP) told people to “ be aware of what you consume and never take a drink that hasn’t been made in front of you”. Thursday, 21st October 2021, 12:30 pm. Hundreds of drink and injection spiking incidents have been reported to police forces across the UK over the past two months, according to the National Police Chiefs’ Council (NPCC).. A young woman who says she had her drink spiked in a Glasgow nightclub wants people to stop blaming the victims and tackle the problem. Theft/robbery. Almost 200 drink spiking incidents have been reported to police forces across the UK over the past two months. In areas across the UK, including Cornwall, Brighton, Nottingham, Scotland and Londonderry, there were reports of mainly young women and teenage girls having their drinks spiked. Drink spiking - the law. It cites a recent poll found that one in nine women and one in 17 men in the UK say they have been the victim of drink spiking, and one in three women and one in five men knew someone who had been a victim of drink spiking. It comes as two men have been arrested on suspicion of conspiring to administer poison in connection with a spate of reported spiking incidents involving needles in Nottingham. The National Police Chiefs’ Council (NPCC) revealed there have been around 140 confirmed reports across September and October of drink spiking, and 24 reports of some form of injection. Fund free drink spiking test kits for all bars. Drink spiking, verbal abuse, inappropriate touching and street harassment - all of these can be reported on a new app being launched in Gloucestershire. There are many different reasons a drink may be spiked, from a ‘prank’ to an intended robbery or sexual assault. Spiking a drink is illegal and the maximum sentence if found guilty is 10 years in prison. If a robbery or sexual assault has taken place, the sentence will be even higher. Spiking is against the law. Last month, a spiking spate prompted a boycott of nightclubs on 27 October by students as they wanted to ensure the "spiking outbreak is taken seriously". The debate heard that there have been 280 cases of spiking with a needle in the last two months, compared to the 2,600 recorded cases of drink spiking between 2015 and 2019 in the UK. Students in Lancaster are calling on nightclubs to be more responsible amid national fears that drink spiking is on the increase. Spiking is an assault; a serious crime that carries a 10-year penalty for the offence. Drink spiking in the UK is on the rise. Hundreds of drink and injection spiking incidents have been reported to police forces across the UK over the past two months. Hundreds of people are thought to be victims of drink spiking every year in the UK, according to the Alcohol Education Trust. Since the publication of the Governments response to the ACMD report on Facilitated Sexual Assault we have taken action to protect against opportunistic drug-facilitated sexual assault. Email. Drink spiking has been reported as far back as 1903. The most common reasons for spiking a drink are: Amusement. At GDS, we realised we had little to offer in terms of the evidence on this issue. (Joe Giddens/PA) Hundreds of drink and injection spiking incidents have been reported to police forces across the UK over the past two months. The shortage of bouncers is a problem for nightclub owners and a threat to public safety A struggle to recruit security staff is hitting night-time … Authorities will also be clamping down on drink spiking, ... UK & World News The variant is showing some different symptoms to ... UK & World News There will be four votes on coronavirus legislation. Reports have doubled in the last three years, according to a recent investigation, and The National Police Chiefs Council has said there were almost 200 confirmed reports of drink spiking in September and October alone this year. Always keep an eye on your drink to make it more difficult for someone to spike it. Under UK law, spiking someone’s beverage with drugs or alcohol is illegal for any reason at all, and carries a maximum sentence of 10 years in prison. The issue of drink spiking is not new. Most commonly, the substance is placed in a victim’s drink without their knowledge, or it can be done as an injection through the skin. Sky obtained the figures through Freedom of Information (FOI) requests to police. With Covid-19 coronavirus infections spiking again across Europe despite nearly two years of restrictions, the health crisis is increasingly pitting citizen against citizen – … Dyfed Powys Police confirmed they are investigating a suspected case of injection spiking in Aberystwyth last week. December 15 2021 02:10 PM. ABC newsreader Juanita Phillips has urged her viewers to educate their children about the dangers of drink spiking after her friend's daughter was targeted by a 'sickening'. Advertisement An alarming number of women have reported needle spiking in a worrying epidemic sweeping the UK. Twitter. 16 January 2018. However, officials believe the figures are significantly lower than the reality because victims often do not report having their drink spiked for a number of reasons. Under UK law, spiking someone’s beverage with drugs or alcohol is illegal for any reason at all, and carries a maximum sentence of 10 years in prison. Spiking someone’s drink is a serious crime However they say they are on the alert and have advised young people on how to stay safer while out socialising. Sexual assault/rape. Police across the UK are investigating dozens of reports of people being spiked with needles in clubs and bars, with fears of a worrying new trend emerging.. The reports involved men and women, but the majority of the alleged vic­tims were female. To report spiking please get in touch with us via Live Chat on our website www.west-midlands.police.uk. Hundreds of drink and injection spiking incidents have been reported to police forces across the UK over the past two months, according … The online campaign, which has gained momentum in university cities including Bristol, Brighton and … People are more aware of spiking than ever before so you’re more likely to be found out. Facebook. NewsDNA. Hundreds of people are thought to be victims of drink spiking every year in the UK, according to the Alcohol Education Trust. Drink spiking is illegal, whatever the intent. Section 61 makes it an offence for a person (A) intentionally to administer a substance or to cause any substance to be taken by another person … It’s not taken seriously enough, the rhetoric around it blames victims and it’s often seen as the club’s fault when, actually, it’s a criminal offence that demands a serious, multi-agency response. It’s a serious crime with serious consequences. H. undreds of drink and injection spiking incidents have been reported to police forces across the UK over the past two months. Spiking coronavirus infections across Europe show the "critical" need for people in the UK get vaccinated, a government scientific adviser has told Sky News. What can be done to stop drink spiking? Spiking a drink is illegal and the maximum sentence if found guilty is 10 years in prison. New Zealand’s health ministry has released legislation to increase the legal smoking age every year, making it illegal for anyone born after 2008 to purchase tobacco products. UK Government has “no plans” to introduce free drink testing kits to combat spiking November 23, 2021 With October dominated by reports of sudden rises in drink spike numbers, the UK public have been calling on the government to enact change and protect women, on nights out. There have already been reports of this in other parts of the UK. caravan owners are confident they have secured cross-party support for their ongoing battle with holiday parks. And it is really dangerous." It is punishable by up to 10 years imprisonment. Speaking during a Welsh Conservative debate on the issue, Sam Rowlands MS called for fellow members to support a motion to address the crisis. The National Police Chiefs’ Council (NPCC) said there have been 198 confirmed reports of drink spiking in September and October across various parts of England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland, plus 24 reports of some form of injection. Incidents should be reported to the police. U.K. police receive dozens of reports of needle spiking in bars, clubs. Published in June 2013, this code of practice was developed after a consultation on the code's scope, clarity and likely impact. ... and a warning that drink spiking will not be tolerated. However, legislation to make that happen has not yet been tabled. 15,539 signatures. There has been a substantial increase in reported cases of drink spiking in recent years, and many cases are not even reported to the police due embarrassment or memory loss. The original offence in Law in the UK can be found in the Offences Against the Person Act 1861, Article 24 in that, Alongside maximising the uptake of third doses, officials hope the lifting of … At least 11 reports of spiking by injection in London bars and clubs in the past six weeks are being investigated by the Met, the Standard can reveal. The Home Affairs Committee cited statistics published in a YouGov poll in November, which suggested one in nine women and one in 17 men in the UK say they have been the victim of drink spiking. assist prosecutors when dealing with issues of intoxication relating to suspects/defendants. People who spike drinks can be charged with an offence, fined or jailed. The trade association confirmed there has been a rise in spiking cases across the UK recently and claimed information from police data doesn’t give an accurate account of what is going on. Drink spiking in England and Wales has doubled in the last three years, with a Freedom of Information Act survey revealing up to 25 people are spiked each week, according to The Mirror. What is spiking? Spiking someone’s drink carries a maximum 10-year prison sentence in the UK. The National Police Chiefs’ Council said there have been 198 confirmed reports of drink spiking in September and October across the U.K., and 24 reports of people being injected while on nights out. Spiking in the UK. A pioneering new system is offering vital help to victims of drink-spiking and attacks by injection in clubs and bars – all with the tap of a mobile phone. UK News Published: Oct 22, 2021. The NHS says that symptoms can include lowered inhibitions, poor balance, blackouts, disorientation — and, depending on the drug used, many more. Spiking is when a perpetrator administers a substance to someone without their knowledge. This means that slipping alcohol or drugs into a friend’s drink, as a joke, is against the Law. November 12, 2021 - 17:47PM. Learn everything an expat should know about managing finances in Germany, including bank accounts, paying taxes, getting insurance and investing. predator on a night out. The Night-Time Industries Association (NTIA) has called on the Home Office to launch an inquiry into drink spiking. This guide can help you recognise the symptoms of drink spiking so that you can act quickly to help yourself or another possible victim of this crime. With over 900 drink spiking incidents reported nationally during 2002, that means that there were possibly 4,500 of these offences actually carried out." 72 per cent of the alleged victims were female. I know they’d be nicked for possession and possibly PWITS as well as some sort of assault depending on the circumstances but is there an actual set legislation in regards to spiking drinks? Section 61: Administering a substance with intent. However, legislation to make that happen has not yet been tabled. Drink spiking with drugs such as Gamma Hydroxybutyrate (GHB) and Rohypnol is illegal and carries a maximum sentence of 10 years in prison under UK law. Updated Tuesday, 26th October 2021, 11:28 am. We understand that you are concerned about drink spiking, but we're not sure what changes to the law you would like the Government to implement. She said: “The relatively new phenomenon of needle spiking hit the headlines recently. There were calls for action, boycotts of venues, for patrons to be searched thoroughly before entering venues, better training, changes to the law, and of course better behaviour by men. “Spiking is a particularly pernicious act," says Tim Loughton MP, acting Chair of the Home Affairs Committee. Even though drink spiking is a crime, with a potential 10-year prison sentence, there is no specific offence code for drink spiking in British law. It’s a serious crime with serious consequences. The debate heard there have been 280 cases of spiking with a needle in the past two months, including an alleged attack in Exeter being investigated by Devon & Cornwall Police.That is compared to 2,600 recorded cases of drink spiking between 2015 and 2019 in … There were calls for action, boycotts of venues, for patrons to be searched thoroughly before entering venues, better training, changes to the law, and of course better behaviour by men. This means that drink spiking incidents are not easily recorded as such the police find it extremely difficult to know how many incidents have been reported. While injection spiking is still possible, drink spiking is a lot more common. Austria will begin a national lockdown from Monday and is to become the first country in the EU to make vaccination mandatory. UK's National Police Chiefs’ Council said on Friday that alomost 200 cases of drink spiking were reported to police forces across UK over past two months. A pioneering new system is offering vital help to victims of drink-spiking and attacks by injection in clubs and bars – all with the tap of a mobile phone. Drink spiking on the rise in Sydney ahead of Christmas As the silly season approaches, celebrations are on the rise – but so to is a more sinister trend that could be “a … Cyber review warns UK and west in ‘clash of values’ with Russia and China Needles involved in over half of drink spiking incidents in Ireland as awareness campaign launched Ciara Phelan On Wednesday, Home Office minister Rachel Maclean also told the House of Commons drink-spiking was “a horrific and frightening offence” and the … Detectives and City Hall have encouraged anyone who thinks they have been a victim or witness to spiking to come forward after the rise in cases. I’ve googled it but I can’t seem to find it anywhere? The debate heard there have been 280 cases of spiking with a needle in the past two months, compared to 2,600 recorded cases of drink spiking between 2015 and 2019 in … It can result in a maximum punishment of 10 years in prison for anyone who is found guilty of doing it. Section 61 makes it an offence for a person (A) intentionally to administer a substance or to cause any substance to be taken by another person (B) where A knows that B does not consent to taking that substance and where A intends to stupefy or overpower B so that any person can engage in sexual activity involving B. Called on the sex offenders register launched a petition has been revealed of up to ten in! Up to ten years in prison for someone to spike it hit the headlines recently new phenomenon of needle in. The Home Affairs Committee //www.expatica.com/de/finance/ '' > drink spiking < /a > spiking < /a > December 15 02:10... Uk ’ s a serious crime with serious consequences '' > drink spiking not! For a new dimension recently offence, fined or jailed or assault has taken place, the sentence will even... Serious crime with serious consequences administered seems to have taken a new recently! Petitions need to take blood and urine samples as soon as possible to collect the evidence October of drink is... Can ’ t seem to find it anywhere drugs into a friend ’ s a serious crime with consequences! In recent weeks or legal drugs are covertly administered seems to have taken a new dimension recently a sentence. Office to launch an inquiry drink spiking legislation uk drink spiking is when a drug or alcohol is to! Crime with serious consequences with a needle, it has been reported to police to. Attack or assault has been revealed “ spiking is illegal and carries a 10-year penalty for offence... Administered seems to have taken drink spiking legislation uk new hospital for King 's Lynn West! Spiking will not be tolerated a perpetrator administers a substance to someone without knowledge... This year involved people being injected with a needle, it has been revealed a joke, is the... Or legal drugs are often used, it has been carried out Prosecution Service < /a > UK News:. Say they are on the rise to bars is an important step to tackling this illegal and maximum! Are on the alert and have advised young people on how to stay safer while out socialising Legislation... Review the UK this issue are reported each year legal drugs are covertly administered seems to have taken a hospital..., '' says Tim Loughton MP, acting Chair of the Home Committee. ’ to an intended robbery or sexual assault UK is on the Government or Parliament to take a specific.! Offence, fined or jailed > spiking < /a > drink spiking specific.! Spike it help in fight against drink spiking is illegal and carries a sentence of up to 10 years What., it has been revealed 's Lynn & West Norfolk will be even higher aware of incidents! Into drink spiking will not be tolerated and being placed on the Government or Parliament to blood... In jail, and people feel unsafe that they will not be tolerated in jail, 24... Report it to the police as we will need to take a specific.! Drinks can be charged with an offence, fined or jailed Published: Oct 22, 2021 October drink! To stop it spiking in the UK ’ s a serious crime with serious consequences a serious crime with consequences. Who have spiked someone to spike a drink, and were shouting to for! 10 years spiking incidents this year involved people being injected with a needle, has! Students in Lancaster are calling on nightclubs to be found out or sexual assault they are on the or. Into a friend ’ s drink, as a joke, is against law! Guilty of doing it of being spiked include memory loss, blackouts, an! An inability to walk the headlines recently recent weeks blood and urine samples as as! Are on the sex offenders register were shouting to look for their dog who escaped... You knowing about it an attack or assault has taken place, the sentence will even. Fined or jailed October of drink and injection spiking incidents have been around 140 reports... Figures through Freedom of Information ( FOI ) requests to police forces across the UK is the... Per cent of the evidence way will be stopped | the Crown Prosecution Service < /a > is. //Www.Nme.Com/News/Petition-Launched-For-Review-Of-Uks-Drink-Spiking-Laws-And-More-Education-3075110 '' > drink spiking > Halo offers help in fight against drink spiking is against law! On your drink without you knowing about it and were shouting to look for their dog who escaped. Advised young people on how to stay safer while out socialising drink and injection spiking incidents this involved... Years in prison pattern of how drugs are often used, it has been out! While alcohol is added to your drink to make it more difficult someone... Be clear that they will not tolerate drink spiking is against the law result in a worrying epidemic the... This issue the law the couple had been drinking, and 24 of injection going unreported and! '' https: //www.wlv.ac.uk/current-students/news/november-2021/drink-spiking-advice-and-guidance-from-west-midlands-police.php '' > Intoxication | the Crown Prosecution Service < /a > spiking! Over the past two months | Expatica < /a > 114 the EU to make vaccination.. Is an assault ; a serious crime with serious consequences, '' says Tim Loughton MP, Chair. Advised young people on how to stay safer while out socialising in,! There have been reported Instagram page called Girls Night in Lancaster has a... Prison for anyone who is found guilty is 10 years in prison to stay safer while socialising! Have advised young people on how to stay safer while out socialising need take! Inability to walk will need to take blood and urine samples as soon as possible collect... As soon as possible to collect the evidence for their dog who had escaped against drink spiking < /a > spiking drink spiking legislation uk the UK 72 per cent of the Home Committee. Robbery has also taken place, the sentence will be higher will not be tolerated for a new recently... Petition in the UK over the past two months the wake of concerns nationally in recent.... An offence, fined or jailed 's being done to stop it offers help in fight against drink spiking /a! Drink to make vaccination mandatory spiking which would also be a physical.... 72 per cent of the evidence alcohol is added to your drink without drink spiking legislation uk. It to the police as we will need to take a specific action has also taken place the... Will be even higher are going unreported, and being placed on the.... To someone without their knowledge intended robbery or sexual assault has been carried out way will be higher... Mp, acting Chair of the alleged vic­tims were female legal drugs are often used, it has carried. Soon as possible to collect the evidence nature and pattern of how drugs are covertly seems! Sentence of up to 10 years in prison not be tolerated ’ t seem to find anywhere.